The Dominus Project

Episode 5: Habits of a Holy Family Habits with Jeff and Bridget Dunbar

Dr. Brian Pedraza:

Hey, friends. Welcome to another episode of Holy Habits in the House. We are reaching the halfway point in the season and since we're in the center of the season, we really want to focus on something that is at the center of what we're doing. We're talking about holiness as a family.  

My name is Dr. Brian Pedraza, I'm a professor of Theology at FranU, and the Director of The Dominus Project, and as always joined with my good friend, Father Josh Johnson.  

Fr. Josh Johnson: What's happening Dr. Pedraza?  

Dr. Brian Pedraza: What's up, man. Is there Dr. In the house?  

Fr. Josh Johnson: You are a doctor.  Yeah, technically, yes.

Dr. Brian Pedraza: That's right.  

Fr. Josh Johnson: But your wife is not married to medicine because you're not that kind of doctor.  

Dr. Brian Pedraza: I'm not that kind of doctor.

Fr. Josh Johnson: You're the type of doctor that if somebody was having a heart attack, you would be useless.  

Dr. Brian Pedraza: Yeah, there I'm useless, so I don't put that on plane ticket. Not, like that, I'm just Brian.

Fr. Josh Johnson: Yeah, but you could pray for them, which is not useless.  

Today we're joined by some of our parishioners, Jeff and Bridget Dunbar. Thank you all for joining us this week, this month, this year.  I think it's a monthly show.

Jeff Dunbar: We're glad to be here.

Fr. Josh Johnson: I haven't been seeing you on Sundays, so I figured I could get you here...

Dr. Brian Pedraza: Oh...shots fired!

Jeff Dunbar: I’m sorry Father, we’ve been tithing at another parish nearby (laughter).  

Fr. Josh Johnson:  

Oh, I see. (laughter). Nice, that’s ok...I’m just joking, I’m just Joshing with y'all.

So, welcome to the show. I always have to begin the show by introducing our couple to the rest of our families. Maybe you all can share a bit about your own story, how you first met, how you fell in love. Was it as romantic as it is in the movies?  

Jeff Dunbar: Very much so. Bridget can share a little bit about when we met at a really nice restaurant. So, I'll let her share about that, and then I'll talk about our dating time.  

Bridget Dunbar: Actually, our youth minister Denny Charbonnet.  I miss Denny.  

She brought the Youth Group kids who went to Steubenville to Pizza Hut, this is my freshman year of college.  So anyway, long story short, Jeff is there and introduces himelf, and says, I'm Jeff Dunbar and I misheard him.  

I said, are you related to somebody that sounds like that, and he goes, “Dunbar. Dunbar!”

Jeff Dunbar: Ha, I did not say that. I said, “it's Dunbar!” and then I might have added, “get it right!”.    (Laughter) so,I said it that way because I knew it was going to be her last name, and so she needed some practice.  

Bridget Dunbar: We didn't speak for A year on campus, and then he figured out who I was.  

Jeff Dunbar: I would holler at her from across campus as I'd be going to the cafeteria  

Bridgett Dunbar: I am an introvert and I would just (cringe).

Jeff Dunbar: On our second date, we're watching a movie together, Bridget's friend had just recommended this movie to her, and she wasn't really aware that in the middle of the movie, there was an inappropriate, we'll call it a love scene.  

We're watching this movie and Bridget is a very virtuous woman. This scene pops up, and it's graphic, it's detail and so she tries to hit fast forward on the remote control, but she hits slow motion and so now she's like in front of the TV, dancing, try to block the screen.  I knew I found the right woman and we've been praying for her and sanctifying her ever since. Yeah.  

Fr. Josh Johnson: That's beautiful.  

Bridget Dunbar: That's terrible.  

Dr. Brian Pedraza: Terrible, yeah, yeah. Speaking of sanctification, we kind of want to get really to the heart of what this podcast is about because we want families, of all types and all sorts, to really be the Domestic Church and I feel like when it comes to holiness, a lot of people hear that word and they're like, I want to be a good person.  

I want to be good people, but like holiness, that sounds like it's way out there. That's a thing for the saints that they make plaster statues out of.

Dr. Brian Pedraza: We really want to invite you all to see, what does holiness look like in the nitty gritty, in the mess, in the real stuff of life. Take us back to the start when you all are having your first child and you're like, we are responsible for this kid getting to heaven in some aspect, right? Of course, they have their own freedom and stuff. But what's that like? How are you all talking about that, figuring out how to raise a kid?

Jeff Dunbar:  

Bridget and I both had come to faith, had our faith experiences where we had either reversions or just come to know and follow the Lord more closely as Catholics. So, we're married, and we're really excited about this idea.  

I remember our eldest daughter, who is 18, and I remember the day she was born. The following morning, she was born at night, the following morning, I jumped up, I woke up at like 5:00 A.M. with this idea on my mind, “I have a new life I'm responsible for”. I went to mass at 6:00 A.M. ...

Bridget Dunbar: You told the sisters!

Jeff Dunbar:  I told the Sisters, I told everybody to pray for us and all the rest.  

Bridgett Dunbar: And then you went home, and I would ask you in preparation for the baby, “Can you hang up these blinds?”, and now He's like, I got to hang the blinds now.  

Jeff Dunbar: Yeah, Yeah, I was putting everything off and then I’m like, Oh No, it's here! Yeah, time to get to work.  I think that there's a lot of energy and excitement for that purpose. I think at the same time; we were probably, I would say, we were probably more rigid in that space of life because you want to get it right. Sometimes we move from letting the Lord build his church and letting the Lord work in us to, oh, Jeff needs to do that.  

(speaking to Bridget), I don't know if you can speak to just maybe some of the rigidity because it's easy to sort of..  

Bridget Dunbar: Oh, I think in our young zealous faith, we were like, we're going to check the boxes. I think even after number one, we have six children now, when they were young and we were trying to drag everybody to daily mass, I was like, gosh, if you're having to discipline and pinch kids in daily mass, maybe you're not called to that. Maybe that's not increasing holiness. But I want to say to that Brian, holiness, doesn't that mean just set apart for God?  

Dr. Brian Pedraza: Yeah.  

Bridget Dunbar: You know I think, we realized quickly, that we had this rigidity and this, we're going to do it right, we're going to check the boxes, and then real life hit and then you get to the season of young family life where it's survival. You're just trying to kind of keep the house clean and feed everybody and keep people dressed and take care of each other in your marriage.

Jeff Dunbar: And to have it be peaceful, we had to develop more balance over time.  

Bridget Dunbar:  

Yeah, so the peace in our home became a premium, our goal. We've tried to stick with that rule since.  

Fr. Josh Johnson:  

Is that part of your discernment, to maintain peace? If we introduce a new practice into our family, is it maintaining peace or is it actually causing disruption. If it's causing disruption, out the door?  

Bridget Dunbar: Yeah. I think it's a constant discernment for us, if it causes more chaos, then we really have to cut it out.  

Jeff Dunbar:  

We received some formation through marriage prep and some counseling that went along with that. We needed more than most, and some people that were mentors to us. This idea is that if it's not good for the goose, it's not good for the gander. Basically, at one time early in our marriage, I would go to Bridget, I like playing sports and I'd be like, “hey, there's pickup basketball tonight”, “hey, there's a tennis match tonight”.  

I always had something, and she felt like if she didn't let me go, maybe she was being a bad wife. I think when you ask that question about, is it adding to peace, I think that in marriage, the purpose of marriage is that it's lifegiving and that it's unitive. I think the idea that we came to was, is this, whatever the question is, is it unitive, is it lifegiving?  

And as we were answering those questions together, we found that peace and joy were the fruits of that. That if we had unity with our Lord, and unity in our marriage, then peace and joy, were going to be the natural fruits of that. I think that's what was, maybe, a perspective change for us. We always love the Lord, but how does that actually happen in a practical ordinary way? And so, it meant some nights, it's actually okay to stay home and have game night with the kids, or to watch the next episode of chosen together, even though I read the book.  

Fr. Josh Johnson: The book is better, it's always better.  

Dr. Brian Pedraza:  

I love that. Taking the ends of marriage, how do you get to a destination if you don't know where the goal is? Taking the ends of marriage and saying unity, giving life, that's what we should aim our family life after. The thing about rigidity in the beginning lines up so well with the psychological studies about parenting, because there's a study that gives, they break it down into three categories. It's like authoritarian parenting, authoritative parenting, and then permissive parenting. It's not like you all are saying rules are bad, let them do whatever.  

Guess which of the three really has the most success, is most successful at handing on character traits from the parents and values and virtues to your children. It's the authoritative one!  It's not being a dictator and it's not being a best friend to your kid and just letting them do whatever. It's like, there are genuine rules, things that really are going to help you become better human beings and for Catholics, to become holy, become even closely united to our Lord, but I can't wheel these around like a weapon for my kids, I'm going to have to try and mentor you and help your freedom grow till your selecting this yourself.  

Jeff Dunbar:  

It was our experience from families that we had grown up with, other couples we knew, and I'm sure you all have seen similar, that in this great desire for holiness, the enemy can twist that, and fear ends up being the motivator versus love.  We saw, sometimes children would grow up and they would sort of reject what they received.  

In 2 Corinthians 3: 17, “for the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom” and when we think about rich soil, that is going to bear fruit. It even says in this parable that that this joyfulness and this peace is what makes that soil fertile. We will have to come back and look at that parable another time because, I think that is the key idea that we have this Father in Heaven who has given us freedom, who has sent His Son and His love for us and so if a father can reflect that to his own children, that is so powerful that the child knows that they are trusted.  

Bridget Dunbar: So, I think all of that, coming back to our family, that if we can provide a home, this safe place where it's peaceful, where we have freedom and we joke a lot in our house. You know,  

Dr. Brian Pedraza: I believe about 25% of the things that Jeff says. I get it. Yeah. I get it.  

Bridget Dunbar:  

But we try to provide an environment where there's that peace and that joy. We don't know what's going to happen with our kids, but as of right now, all of our children love us, our 18-year-old really loves the Lord and I think our other kids do too.  

Father Josh Johnson: But you also give them freedom, you KNOW your kids, and I've witnessed that the two of you give them freedom to cultivate their relationship with the Lord in their own unique ways. They're not all the same, your kids are all so different.

Bridget Dunbar:  

Our eldest this morning, Jeff and I get up and try to do morning prayer and coffee, and our eldest Teres, she has her Bible, and she'll just do her own thing, which is beautiful, but our second child is not like that. She's not getting up early to read the Bible. She's going to do it later in the day, she gets it, but I'm not going to force that. They have to choose that and make it their own. Yeah.  

Jeff Dunbar: That and the sunlight will burn you if you're a vampire.  

Bridget Dunbar: You have to open those curtains for that teenager.  

Jeff Dunbar: But I think going to that point about freedom, that and we don't shelter, sometimes we reveal information, we want to tell a 7-year-old...  

Bridget Dunbar: Age-appropriate disclosure.  

Jeff Dunbar:  

Yeah, about how the world views sexuality and marriage, not the same way we speak to our eldest who's going off to college. At the same time, I think a principle about freedom and trust is that I'm willing to trust you with the information that our children are going to run into, in the world.  

We go back to mission, I know that the family has both this mission to cultivate holiness in our children and to prepare them, holiness in our children means to be evangelizing inside the family, and then eventually outside of the house as well. This is our way to heaven, freedom plays into this, joy plays into this, because we want to inoculate our children to the wiles of the enemy, to the allures of the world, and you don't do that by shielding them from those things.  

Bridget Dunbar:  

Yeah, I think there are families, like you said before, that we looked up to, and we didn't see that, then it didn't turn out the way, I think they were hoping. Those children were more rebellious or just didn't choose that same, more rigid path and so I mean, it was only by the light of the Holy Spirit we were like, we might have to recalibrate here.  

Dr. Brian Pedraza:  

Yes, I like the inoculation metaphor because I mean, I'm no scientists, but the way I understand the way that vaccines work, you give a tiny little controlled bit, where you can control what's going on, to get the body used to something, right? So, like I don't want my kids' friends to be the ones who introduced them to these really pivotal and intense and easily twistable things.   I want my wife and me to be the ones to introduce them and not just to be like, no, no, no, don't ever think about that, that doesn't exist.  

It's like at the age-appropriate time, here it is, let's talk about it.  

Let's let you wrestle with it and we're not going to leave you alone, we're always going to be there for you, to help you work through those things.  

Jeff Dunbar:  

Yeah, that the Lord has, through our church and through His word, has given us the tools, the truth, He's entrusted us with that, and we can have this confidence that the gates of Hell are not going to prevail against her. Jesus says, I think it's late in John's Gospel, “I'm going to lead you to all knowledge, all knowledge and all truth”.  

Jeff Dunbar: We can have this confidence to pass this on to our children. I think that really helps them interact with the world. I don't think that we do this perfectly. We were hoping to come here today, and you'll tell us the answers, but that's been our experience.  

Bridget Dunbar:  

I think also in that even when it comes to sex and sexuality, that if our children are dating and they're remaining chaste in college, they're going to be the minority. But, I think, to present to them the truth of it, the truth of what God's plan is and how fulfilling it is.   In the garden, he has every good thing for us, and we don't have to go after the other, what the world is enticing us with, because there is a beautiful plan.  

And so, to present that to them, in truth and joy and peace, and to not act like we're keeping the good stuff from them. We're showing them how to have a lot of fun and to be joyful and to live a full life, but you don't have to choose these shortcuts that the world presents to you.  

Dr. Brian Pedraza:  

Yeah, I love how you all genuinely accompany your children. I know not perfectly or anything like that, but it's clearly visible, from the times that we have visited your home, that there is an air of peace and freedom. It's an important thing, especially for the church, the tradition of the church is that freedom is always aimed at the good, that's why it exists. Whereas our typical conception of freedom today is the ability to do whatever you want.  The Christian way of understanding freedom and the genuine way is that freedom is aimed at the good, and it must be aimed in such a way that it pertains to the nature of the thing.  

Without nerding out too much theologically, if you're going to play an instrument, and say somebody has no idea how to play the instrument, it's like, play something beautiful. When a kid is hammering on the keys, not knowing how to do anything. We have literally, in our house, been like “that's not what a piano is for”.  But then if you continue to practice, you have somebody who's a mentor that shows you the nature of music, the way that it works on a piano, the more practice you get, the more freedom you genuinely have.  Somebody can say, “Hey, play something beautiful” and maybe they've been practicing for decades. If you have ever seen a good jazz player on the piano, they will come up with on-the-spot improvisation, and it's beautiful... that's the true nature of freedom. But that freedom takes accompaniment the whole way, to really open those spaces of freedom, to let them choose, to let them wrestle.  

I love what you all are saying and in a way it's very Franciscan, too.  The way that you guys approach your family's spirituality with we're measuring things by piece, we're looking for building freedom, that's always going to be aimed at the truth of what's good in things.  

Bridget Dunbar:    

I think Brian, you're also talking about building virtue, right? When you build that virtue, that is what allows you to be free. Absolutely. Yeah.  

Jeff Dunbar:  

Yeah, I love the point about Franciscan, there's a creative element to the Franciscan charism, and it's not rule base per se, it's about how love and prudence takes us to the next decision or place or idea. I remember somebody asked me one time, what's going to be the age that your children can date? I'm like, I think it depends on the kid. there's a lot to think about, it depends on the prospects, amongst other things,  

Dr. Brian Pedraza: A lot of people will be like, “No, you got to set the same rule!”  

Jeff Dunbar:  

Yeah, same rule for every kid, yeah, it's not fair.  

We've, I think the way that we've come to this in terms of... I think a good example also is in social media. I think it's run amuck in society, and I think that it's competition to a mother and father for the minds at hearts of their children and we want to turn down, we would just say no, our children can't do social media at all. We've simply just said to our children, if you think there's a good reason, you know, come and present that to us. Let us know why you think it's good for you.   Know that we're trying to go to heaven, you know that we want to bring other people to Jesus...

Bridget Dunbar: ... to be peaceful and joyful.  

Jeff Dunbar:  

Right? Yeah, those are sort of the results, and I suppose it's also part of the rewards that God give us for living a holy life. But yeah, we tell them, we can talk about it, we're happy too. We have freedom to decide, and you can trust us that we're going to help you make a good decision.  

Bridget Dunbar:  

Yeah, so is social media going to make you more peaceful and joyful? At this point, our children are not on social media. They text, you know they text, but they don't do social media and for us, it's been a good decision.  

Fr. Josh Johnson:

I think I want to wrap us up with a takeaway, or a few that our families can do this month.  

One, I really love the idea of discerning based on peace and joy within “our” family.  Just because it works for someone else doesn’t mean it will work for us. We've had this conversation with many things, talks about different movements within the church. That's not going to be for everyone, because you know what works for you is not always what works for the next person, right?  

So, I want to encourage our families to maybe, first for the parents, first for the adults, and then bring the kids in because we do this with the people at the parish of Sacred Heart.

We look at Sacred Heart, we put a board up. We put down what’s happening at Sacred Heart.  Here's what's working really well.  Here's what's not working so well.  Here's what could be better. Here's what we should just keep the same. Identify in your life as a family. What are some things that have brought us peace consistently.

Bridget Dunbar:  

Yeah, I think for Jeff and me, I think when we're discerning the things we're kind of having questions about, we say, “Hey, we need to meet and figure this out”.  First, we want to meet and talk and pray about it first and then, I think sometimes it comes to just making those hard decisions. We made them before about travel ball, travel ball for this kid has to go. Is that working for us?  I think it's hard, sometimes for Jeff and I there's a lot of good competing things out there, but the good is the enemy of the great and the great is frequently, peaceful home and being together in the evenings and not running around.

Jeff Dunbar: Prayer and discernment to make important decisions is important for us and I think the other one for building peace and joy, we have a saying that encourages in our Christian home, to make it bright and cheerful “Do I yield to matters of personal preference?” That's a phrase, a question we've picked up and now when we're driving to go eat somewhere, and the kids want to go to Chick-Fil –A and I want to go to Canes, they say, Dad, don't forget to yield in matters of personal preference and so, I think that's a great way to help build up freedom, peace, and joy.  

Father Josh:

That's great. The two great things we can encourage your family to do is to discern ourselves and ask, am I my yielding to my own preferences, though we would say go to Canes, because our parishoners work at Canes!  Ya know,  one love, one Parish, one heart!

But also, to discern to be intentional about what’s bringing peace in the home.

Then the final thing is, I want to invite our families, because you guys have six kids who are all very different, in their personalities, but you know their personalities because you've taken time to invest in that, and you relate to your kids differently because of that.

There's a thing called temperaments and I would encourage our families that are watching to do some research on the temperaments to discover what your temperament is, and find out for your spouse, for your kids and that will help you to better relate to them because we're all so different. Saints have done this.    I have done it.

Have you done it before?  

Bridget Dunbar: Yes, the book is called, The temperament that God gave you.  That's the best book ever. Yeah, but it's so helpful in marriage, but even in your children.  

Fr. Josh Johnosn:

So, thank you so much for sharing your story and your faith with us, your gifts.   Jeff, you have something that you want to say, I can tell.  

Jeff Dunbar:

We're really grateful for the two of you and The Dominus Project, and Sacred Heart Parish. Sacred Heart Parish is the best parish in the world and is the best parish in our geographical boundaries!

Fr. Josh Johnson: Hey, there it is.  

Dr. Brian Pedraza: Thanks, be to God and to you. Thanks for joining us.  

Jeff Dunbar: Thanks for having us.

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